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	<title>Comments on: Nobody expects the FIRST derivative!!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/</link>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2255</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I come to expect more precision in my spectacles.  You might consider an appellation to the eminent Brook Taylor to reconcile your desire to balance the importance of a first derivative with a second.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I come to expect more precision in my spectacles.  You might consider an appellation to the eminent Brook Taylor to reconcile your desire to balance the importance of a first derivative with a second.</p>
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		<title>By: Einstein's ghost</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2240</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Einstein's ghost]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whack! (reed on knuckles) 

Derivation can only be delineated in terms of &quot;time&quot;?  Hmmmm...

Baruch, you have not begun to fight!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whack! (reed on knuckles) </p>
<p>Derivation can only be delineated in terms of &#8220;time&#8221;?  Hmmmm&#8230;</p>
<p>Baruch, you have not begun to fight!</p>
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		<title>By: Baruch</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2239</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baruch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Patton, you make my morning. I may change the title of the post back. Take that, Ramster! Pow! The second derivative of revenue!!

Dave, everyone knows Newton invented calculus, and that Leibniz copied him, the sad, derivative, flighty nincompoop that he is or was. In fact, the latest, unpublished, biography makes the charge that he had problems with long division. Anyway, as Patton points out, I was right all along.

Interestingly, Spinoza was a trader before he became a philosopher, probably dabbling in West and East India stock, as well as commodities like raisins. I don&#039;t think he did very well, he was trading in a hole.

As for ignoring the smaller stocks, one of the things I want to avoid with this blog is making it too &quot;stocky&quot;, and reducing it to a tip sheet, open to the accusation of punping and dumping the stocks I own and write about. I am fully aware that there are more interesting stocks in the world than the big cap techs, and it is mid cap tech and growth (ex biotech) that we specialise. Looking for these smaller stocks is my day job. Oh the stories I could tell.

That&#039;s why my posts are more about generalities (how I think people value stuff, for instance), in other words the epistemology of investing, and refer to the biggest, most popular stocks everyone, including my friends, talks about, like AAPL and GOOG. In fact, I don&#039;t formally look at AAPL and GOOG at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patton, you make my morning. I may change the title of the post back. Take that, Ramster! Pow! The second derivative of revenue!!</p>
<p>Dave, everyone knows Newton invented calculus, and that Leibniz copied him, the sad, derivative, flighty nincompoop that he is or was. In fact, the latest, unpublished, biography makes the charge that he had problems with long division. Anyway, as Patton points out, I was right all along.</p>
<p>Interestingly, Spinoza was a trader before he became a philosopher, probably dabbling in West and East India stock, as well as commodities like raisins. I don&#8217;t think he did very well, he was trading in a hole.</p>
<p>As for ignoring the smaller stocks, one of the things I want to avoid with this blog is making it too &#8220;stocky&#8221;, and reducing it to a tip sheet, open to the accusation of punping and dumping the stocks I own and write about. I am fully aware that there are more interesting stocks in the world than the big cap techs, and it is mid cap tech and growth (ex biotech) that we specialise. Looking for these smaller stocks is my day job. Oh the stories I could tell.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why my posts are more about generalities (how I think people value stuff, for instance), in other words the epistemology of investing, and refer to the biggest, most popular stocks everyone, including my friends, talks about, like AAPL and GOOG. In fact, I don&#8217;t formally look at AAPL and GOOG at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Patton</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No &quot;rats&quot; necessary, really: the number you talk of is the second derivative of revenue, but the first derivative of growth, which is itself the first derivative of revenue.

So yes, I guess I, too, am a pedant.

Your point remains valid, and thanks for it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No &#8220;rats&#8221; necessary, really: the number you talk of is the second derivative of revenue, but the first derivative of growth, which is itself the first derivative of revenue.</p>
<p>So yes, I guess I, too, am a pedant.</p>
<p>Your point remains valid, and thanks for it.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveinHackensack</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DaveinHackensack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This comment thread is amusing, especially after reading your &quot;About&quot; page where you called Leibniz a fool. At least Leibniz would get the derivative right. 

Fascinating to read that there is a Spinozist investing blog though. Spinoza was one of my favorite classes in college, and I was pleasantly surprised to see him quoted by Benjamin Graham in The Intelligent Investor and the part of Security Analysis I&#039;ve managed to slog through so far. 

Good point about the power of accelerating earnings and beating whisper numbers, but I second the poster above who expressed ennui about the two mega caps. Why not turn your attention to the tiny stocks that have a chance of taking off (I&#039;ve mentioned a couple of candidates on my blog)? That&#039;s a lot harder, but as Spinoza said in his Ethics, &quot;all things excellent are as difficult as they are rare&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment thread is amusing, especially after reading your &#8220;About&#8221; page where you called Leibniz a fool. At least Leibniz would get the derivative right. </p>
<p>Fascinating to read that there is a Spinozist investing blog though. Spinoza was one of my favorite classes in college, and I was pleasantly surprised to see him quoted by Benjamin Graham in The Intelligent Investor and the part of Security Analysis I&#8217;ve managed to slog through so far. </p>
<p>Good point about the power of accelerating earnings and beating whisper numbers, but I second the poster above who expressed ennui about the two mega caps. Why not turn your attention to the tiny stocks that have a chance of taking off (I&#8217;ve mentioned a couple of candidates on my blog)? That&#8217;s a lot harder, but as Spinoza said in his Ethics, &#8220;all things excellent are as difficult as they are rare&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: The Particle</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Particle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are other stocks in the universe than AAPL &amp; GOOG. And once you introduce the third derivative, &lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt; techs will get filtered out. 

Go out and discover the real growth stocks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are other stocks in the universe than AAPL &amp; GOOG. And once you introduce the third derivative, <b>all</b> techs will get filtered out. </p>
<p>Go out and discover the real growth stocks.</p>
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		<title>By: Dude</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2234</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since earnings/revenue is the underlying issue, then the first derivative or the rate of change is the growth rate, hence first derivative. 

But ya i get your post, good stuff :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since earnings/revenue is the underlying issue, then the first derivative or the rate of change is the growth rate, hence first derivative. </p>
<p>But ya i get your post, good stuff :)</p>
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		<title>By: baruch</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[baruch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yeah, that&#039;s right. scenario 3. revenue growth increasing, makes stocks go up.

so technically that is first derivative? rats.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, that&#8217;s right. scenario 3. revenue growth increasing, makes stocks go up.</p>
<p>so technically that is first derivative? rats.</p>
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		<title>By: 1Best</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1Best]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From social conscious perspective:

AAPL does not have no productive, but has destructive value.

Of course, that is from different perspective than pure marketing hot product.

Stumbled on to your blog.

Good luck]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From social conscious perspective:</p>
<p>AAPL does not have no productive, but has destructive value.</p>
<p>Of course, that is from different perspective than pure marketing hot product.</p>
<p>Stumbled on to your blog.</p>
<p>Good luck</p>
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		<title>By: ramster</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ramster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well I never denied being pedantic.  Consider 3 cases

1) flat revenue: first derivative (i.e. growth)  is zero. The second derivative is also zero. 

2) steady growth in revenue (e.g. 38% a quarter). First derivative is a non-zero constant but the second derivative is still zero.

3) increasing growth in revenue (e.g. 10% in Y1, 20% in Y2, 30% in Y3, etc.). First derivative of revenue is increasing linearly. Second derivative of revenue is a non-zero constant.

In my  analogy, scenario 2 represents revenue velocity but not acceleration. Scenario 3 is acceleration.  I believe scenario 3 is what you&#039;re talking about when referring to the second derivative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I never denied being pedantic.  Consider 3 cases</p>
<p>1) flat revenue: first derivative (i.e. growth)  is zero. The second derivative is also zero. </p>
<p>2) steady growth in revenue (e.g. 38% a quarter). First derivative is a non-zero constant but the second derivative is still zero.</p>
<p>3) increasing growth in revenue (e.g. 10% in Y1, 20% in Y2, 30% in Y3, etc.). First derivative of revenue is increasing linearly. Second derivative of revenue is a non-zero constant.</p>
<p>In my  analogy, scenario 2 represents revenue velocity but not acceleration. Scenario 3 is acceleration.  I believe scenario 3 is what you&#8217;re talking about when referring to the second derivative.</p>
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		<title>By: baruch</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[baruch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dweebs!! Pedant alert! I can see this comment stream becoming a tedious discussion of what &quot;2nd derivative&quot; means, rather than the clear educational value of my post. Soon as I get home I am changing the title. Us tech guys CALL it the &quot;second derivative.&quot; So that&#039;s what it is.

Anyway, ramster, what do you mean by the &quot;acceleration of revenue&quot; rather than the &quot;velocity&quot;? do mean &quot;of revenue growth&quot; than &quot;of revenue&quot;? i don&#039;t know what the &quot;velocity&quot; of revenue is. Does that mean e.g. y-y growth in revenues?

because whatever that number is for AAPL, say 38% last quarter, that number is going up in the collective minds of investors, and this is why AAPL is worth more than GOOG.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dweebs!! Pedant alert! I can see this comment stream becoming a tedious discussion of what &#8220;2nd derivative&#8221; means, rather than the clear educational value of my post. Soon as I get home I am changing the title. Us tech guys CALL it the &#8220;second derivative.&#8221; So that&#8217;s what it is.</p>
<p>Anyway, ramster, what do you mean by the &#8220;acceleration of revenue&#8221; rather than the &#8220;velocity&#8221;? do mean &#8220;of revenue growth&#8221; than &#8220;of revenue&#8221;? i don&#8217;t know what the &#8220;velocity&#8221; of revenue is. Does that mean e.g. y-y growth in revenues?</p>
<p>because whatever that number is for AAPL, say 38% last quarter, that number is going up in the collective minds of investors, and this is why AAPL is worth more than GOOG.</p>
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		<title>By: ramster</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ramster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Felix. I think you mean the second derivative of revenue over time, which is, of course, the first derivative of growth.  It&#039;s like the acceleration of revenue vs the velocity of revenue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Felix. I think you mean the second derivative of revenue over time, which is, of course, the first derivative of growth.  It&#8217;s like the acceleration of revenue vs the velocity of revenue.</p>
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		<title>By: baruch</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[baruch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[no, the growth of the growth rate. all revenues. i&#039;m not specifically talking about earnings growth rates, although that is also very important and i guess it could equally apply. the main question is: are growth rates increasing or decreasing? if increasing, all sorts of good things happen, and the stock is likely to go up a lot via the mechanisms i describe above.

maybe it&#039;s the first derivative of growth. oh dear, that would be embarrassing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no, the growth of the growth rate. all revenues. i&#8217;m not specifically talking about earnings growth rates, although that is also very important and i guess it could equally apply. the main question is: are growth rates increasing or decreasing? if increasing, all sorts of good things happen, and the stock is likely to go up a lot via the mechanisms i describe above.</p>
<p>maybe it&#8217;s the first derivative of growth. oh dear, that would be embarrassing.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2008/08/17/nobody-expects-the-second-derivative/comment-page-1/#comment-2227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Felix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.wordpress.com/?p=204#comment-2227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You mean the first derivative of growth, the second derivative of earnings, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean the first derivative of growth, the second derivative of earnings, right?</p>
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