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	<title>Comments on: Markets don&#8217;t actually collide, you know</title>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2666</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re disappointingly nice to the chap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re disappointingly nice to the chap.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Chu</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2636</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Chu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A re-reading of old favourites like Peter Warburton&#039;s Debt &amp; Delusion, Paul Erdman&#039;s Tug Of War and The Crash of &#039;79 quite enjoyable in these times.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A re-reading of old favourites like Peter Warburton&#8217;s Debt &amp; Delusion, Paul Erdman&#8217;s Tug Of War and The Crash of &#8217;79 quite enjoyable in these times.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Soh</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Soh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that Ken&#039;s been wrongly bullish and that is something that hasn&#039;t sat well. 

But mastery of all asset classes and being able to choose between them is too much to ask from a book on investing* (&quot;The Intelligent Investor?&quot;) I think that in stocks he does it rather well, better than most, and on this subject there is the proven long term positive track record, original ideas, and written in a style that will not bore you to death. 

On stocks as an asset class (and because of indexing and limited liability) wouldn&#039;t it be the logical choice for having the largest allocation in a market neutral environment - by construction the upside is unlimited. 

*There is an asset allocation book by  David Darst that looks interesting, but seems to be more instructional than philosophical as I suspect you would appreciate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Ken&#8217;s been wrongly bullish and that is something that hasn&#8217;t sat well. </p>
<p>But mastery of all asset classes and being able to choose between them is too much to ask from a book on investing* (&#8220;The Intelligent Investor?&#8221;) I think that in stocks he does it rather well, better than most, and on this subject there is the proven long term positive track record, original ideas, and written in a style that will not bore you to death. </p>
<p>On stocks as an asset class (and because of indexing and limited liability) wouldn&#8217;t it be the logical choice for having the largest allocation in a market neutral environment &#8211; by construction the upside is unlimited. </p>
<p>*There is an asset allocation book by  David Darst that looks interesting, but seems to be more instructional than philosophical as I suspect you would appreciate.</p>
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		<title>By: baruch</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2633</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[baruch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tom, you are redeemed. But I don&#039;t think he does give any comfort that &quot;there is a destination for the world economy that does not involve the complete collapse of the fiat money system and a 1930s style depression&quot; as you put it. He wrote this book before the onset of our current troubles.

In fact since then from reading his op-eds I get the impression he is much more worried. Taken to its logical conclusion, his &quot;heart attack&quot; metaphor represents a non-negligible risk of death, and almost certainly a lengthy recuperation and period of sustained weakness.

He doesn&#039;t say We are all going to have a collective &quot;heart attack&quot; in the book at all, does he?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, you are redeemed. But I don&#8217;t think he does give any comfort that &#8220;there is a destination for the world economy that does not involve the complete collapse of the fiat money system and a 1930s style depression&#8221; as you put it. He wrote this book before the onset of our current troubles.</p>
<p>In fact since then from reading his op-eds I get the impression he is much more worried. Taken to its logical conclusion, his &#8220;heart attack&#8221; metaphor represents a non-negligible risk of death, and almost certainly a lengthy recuperation and period of sustained weakness.</p>
<p>He doesn&#8217;t say We are all going to have a collective &#8220;heart attack&#8221; in the book at all, does he?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2632</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, it was Cambridge. I&#039;m now about 200 pages in, and reading in the light of your review, I can see how the writing style is annoying - there is a lot of foreshadowing (&quot;We will discuss&quot; &quot;I will look at&quot;) and then recapping (&quot;As I showed&quot; &quot;We have reviewed&quot;),  and it seems it&#039;s all sizzle and no sausage. Also, I&#039;m shocked and amused that an author of El-Erian&#039;s stature needs to ask his friends to write complimentary blurbs - I&#039;m sure there are enough reviews that can be quoted, and that would be a bit more serious. Plus the lead testimonial from Greenspan is worth a lot less than it was a year or so ago.

But the sausage is there - he really is looking beyond the immediate problems of the US and European banking systems, at the more fundamental causes of those problems, namely, that the banks got over-leveraged because there was so much more liquidity sloshing about.  This discussion has helped me, because it helps to distill a view about which tendencies will stay, and which will dissipate.

In particular, the savings of emerging economies, especially Asian ones, will continue to be positive, and will be looking for a home. That led to a huge under-pricing of risk, which is currently being corrected, and will probably over-shoot. But the money will still be there, and I need to think about what it will do once things have settled down. And for this, I found El-Erian&#039;s discussion in terms of liquidity preference very helpful. Now, maybe this is because I&#039;m just more used to this Keynesian model, with a neoclassical overlay, and I just happen to be the perfect audience for this book. But I would recommend it to any economist as a way to think about the broader picture within a theoretical framework that&#039;s a little more developed than what they read in Samuelson. 

Another thing I like is that while giving comfort that there is a destination for the world economy that does not involve the complete collapse of the fiat money system and a 1930s style depression, he takes pains to point out that the journey taken will affect the destination. This is important in the context of the bank bailout currently underway in the US and Europe. If the banking system is one of the engines of the boat that will bring us to our destination, then the speed and quality of the repair work will determine the speed of the trip, and exactly where we make landfall.

One real criticism that I have is that he is certain that Asian and commodity country consumption can compensate for the demand fall that will result from a restoration of US savings - as far as I understand it, they are really quite different magnitudes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it was Cambridge. I&#8217;m now about 200 pages in, and reading in the light of your review, I can see how the writing style is annoying &#8211; there is a lot of foreshadowing (&#8220;We will discuss&#8221; &#8220;I will look at&#8221;) and then recapping (&#8220;As I showed&#8221; &#8220;We have reviewed&#8221;),  and it seems it&#8217;s all sizzle and no sausage. Also, I&#8217;m shocked and amused that an author of El-Erian&#8217;s stature needs to ask his friends to write complimentary blurbs &#8211; I&#8217;m sure there are enough reviews that can be quoted, and that would be a bit more serious. Plus the lead testimonial from Greenspan is worth a lot less than it was a year or so ago.</p>
<p>But the sausage is there &#8211; he really is looking beyond the immediate problems of the US and European banking systems, at the more fundamental causes of those problems, namely, that the banks got over-leveraged because there was so much more liquidity sloshing about.  This discussion has helped me, because it helps to distill a view about which tendencies will stay, and which will dissipate.</p>
<p>In particular, the savings of emerging economies, especially Asian ones, will continue to be positive, and will be looking for a home. That led to a huge under-pricing of risk, which is currently being corrected, and will probably over-shoot. But the money will still be there, and I need to think about what it will do once things have settled down. And for this, I found El-Erian&#8217;s discussion in terms of liquidity preference very helpful. Now, maybe this is because I&#8217;m just more used to this Keynesian model, with a neoclassical overlay, and I just happen to be the perfect audience for this book. But I would recommend it to any economist as a way to think about the broader picture within a theoretical framework that&#8217;s a little more developed than what they read in Samuelson. </p>
<p>Another thing I like is that while giving comfort that there is a destination for the world economy that does not involve the complete collapse of the fiat money system and a 1930s style depression, he takes pains to point out that the journey taken will affect the destination. This is important in the context of the bank bailout currently underway in the US and Europe. If the banking system is one of the engines of the boat that will bring us to our destination, then the speed and quality of the repair work will determine the speed of the trip, and exactly where we make landfall.</p>
<p>One real criticism that I have is that he is certain that Asian and commodity country consumption can compensate for the demand fall that will result from a restoration of US savings &#8211; as far as I understand it, they are really quite different magnitudes.</p>
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		<title>By: VicktorCapitalist</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2631</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VicktorCapitalist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also can&#039;t finish the book and find the book really so so.   To me it is massively over-rated by the media.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also can&#8217;t finish the book and find the book really so so.   To me it is massively over-rated by the media.</p>
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		<title>By: hedgie</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2630</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hedgie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that el-Erian&#039;s book is poorly written and of little practical value.  I did slog my way through to the end, and it didn&#039;t get any more compelling as it went.  There are some investing books that are worth reading despite their stylistic infelicities: the work of Martin Whitman comes to mind.  But el-Erian&#039;s book fails to reveal anything interesting about Pimco&#039;s core competence: working closely with the government to get what one wants.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that el-Erian&#8217;s book is poorly written and of little practical value.  I did slog my way through to the end, and it didn&#8217;t get any more compelling as it went.  There are some investing books that are worth reading despite their stylistic infelicities: the work of Martin Whitman comes to mind.  But el-Erian&#8217;s book fails to reveal anything interesting about Pimco&#8217;s core competence: working closely with the government to get what one wants.</p>
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		<title>By: TR</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2629</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 03:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[youre kidding! a top PIMCO exec is actually a blowhard windbag???!!? no way!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>youre kidding! a top PIMCO exec is actually a blowhard windbag???!!? no way!</p>
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		<title>By: valuegeek</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2627</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[valuegeek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The reputations of men of finance have dropped quite a few notches since the crisis erupted. Books like this just convince me that this is not without cause.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reputations of men of finance have dropped quite a few notches since the crisis erupted. Books like this just convince me that this is not without cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Baruch</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2626</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baruch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2626</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ryan, that Ken Fisher, doesn&#039;t he go on about hgow we should alwways buy stocks, like all the time? Wouldn&#039;t that be sort of wrong? At the moment.

My problem with having a clear directional position on stocks, bonds or whatever in a book, is that the market has a way of making one look a spazzer after a while. A book is a long-lived thing, one will be remembered for it after one is gone, one hopes. Being wrong and/or irrelevant after a certain while is probably inevitable.

Tom, I hope you&#039;re referring to Cambridge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, that Ken Fisher, doesn&#8217;t he go on about hgow we should alwways buy stocks, like all the time? Wouldn&#8217;t that be sort of wrong? At the moment.</p>
<p>My problem with having a clear directional position on stocks, bonds or whatever in a book, is that the market has a way of making one look a spazzer after a while. A book is a long-lived thing, one will be remembered for it after one is gone, one hopes. Being wrong and/or irrelevant after a certain while is probably inevitable.</p>
<p>Tom, I hope you&#8217;re referring to Cambridge.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2625</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 05:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2625</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m about two-thirds of the way through this book, and I&#039;m really enjoying it, and plan to read through to the end. I mainly bought it on the back of a talk he gave to CFA candidates in California in the middle of last year, which is available on the CFA website.
I think that the reason I like it so much is because I have a similar educational background to Mr El-Erian (I studied economics at the same university as him), and the book has helped to rekindle my memories of the economics I learned back then, and apply it to the present day. However, it&#039;s equally clear to me that the style is very much that of an academic economist, and I can imagine that this is not for everyone. Plus, as the review points out, there is an awful lot of framing questions, and pointing out tendencies, without actually coming out and making firm predictions.
Nonetheless, even though the book was basically written in late 2007 and early 2008, I think a lot of what it says is applicable. That&#039;s mainly because it&#039;s not talking about the short term effects of the leverage bubble, but about the longer term effects of high savings in emerging markets, and of financial innovation in general. If you can find the talk on the CFA website, I recommend you do so - it was in the middle of 2008, and has a lot more meat in it, because I suspect the audience wouldn&#039;t tolerate the style of the book, and its somewhat circular approach.
If you have in mind that, in general, he wants to warn investors against assuming that there will always be mean reversion, and that you should manage your tail risks, then the book starts to make a lot more sense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m about two-thirds of the way through this book, and I&#8217;m really enjoying it, and plan to read through to the end. I mainly bought it on the back of a talk he gave to CFA candidates in California in the middle of last year, which is available on the CFA website.<br />
I think that the reason I like it so much is because I have a similar educational background to Mr El-Erian (I studied economics at the same university as him), and the book has helped to rekindle my memories of the economics I learned back then, and apply it to the present day. However, it&#8217;s equally clear to me that the style is very much that of an academic economist, and I can imagine that this is not for everyone. Plus, as the review points out, there is an awful lot of framing questions, and pointing out tendencies, without actually coming out and making firm predictions.<br />
Nonetheless, even though the book was basically written in late 2007 and early 2008, I think a lot of what it says is applicable. That&#8217;s mainly because it&#8217;s not talking about the short term effects of the leverage bubble, but about the longer term effects of high savings in emerging markets, and of financial innovation in general. If you can find the talk on the CFA website, I recommend you do so &#8211; it was in the middle of 2008, and has a lot more meat in it, because I suspect the audience wouldn&#8217;t tolerate the style of the book, and its somewhat circular approach.<br />
If you have in mind that, in general, he wants to warn investors against assuming that there will always be mean reversion, and that you should manage your tail risks, then the book starts to make a lot more sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Trader Joe</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trader Joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 02:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey !!!!! I love 2-buck chuck !!
Don&#039;t diss it man !!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey !!!!! I love 2-buck chuck !!<br />
Don&#8217;t diss it man !!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ryan Soh</title>
		<link>http://ultimibarbarorum.com/2009/02/28/markets-dont-actually-collide-you-know/comment-page-1/#comment-2621</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Soh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ultimibarbarorum.com/?p=302#comment-2621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sir,

One has to consider his audience. Perhaps some readers of this blog and your good self will find it obvious but it may not be to others. However touche on the dullness of delivery.

As for books on investing, why not stuff by Ken Fisher? The man has the track record, passion, experience and lineage, his books have genuinely interesting ideas, they do not cost thousands of dollars because they are out of print, and it doesn&#039;t mess around with technojargon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir,</p>
<p>One has to consider his audience. Perhaps some readers of this blog and your good self will find it obvious but it may not be to others. However touche on the dullness of delivery.</p>
<p>As for books on investing, why not stuff by Ken Fisher? The man has the track record, passion, experience and lineage, his books have genuinely interesting ideas, they do not cost thousands of dollars because they are out of print, and it doesn&#8217;t mess around with technojargon.</p>
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